Louder Than Guns – The Assignment with Audie Cornish – Podcast on CNN Audio

I did not suppose we would be doing one other episode a couple of mass taking pictures so quickly. However right here we’re.

As a group.

That is from a vigil in Nashville.

Thanks to our artists for sharing the reward of music. You’re the custodians of that particular reward.

I have been to this place, and I do not imply some type of memorial after a mass taking pictures, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for just a few years masking the South, and it is not a giant metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Girl Jill Biden visited town to attend a vigil for the taking pictures victims of the Covenant College, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist can be there.

Will the circle be unbroken?

By and by, Lord, by and by.

That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award successful band Outdated Crow Medication Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their group and a dad or mum of two faculty aged youngsters. In actual fact, the college his youngsters attend in East Nashville, he co-based it in 2016. It is referred to as the Episcopal College of Nashville.

So I am carrying two completely different hats right here when a faculty taking pictures occurs in our city. It is each as a dad or mum and it is as any person who’s on the opposite facet of the decide up line as effectively. When a rustic singer will get off the highway, chances are high at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the massive weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a faculty in Nashville, Tennessee. In relation to your house, it is completely different.

And the sky lowered within the sky.

Ketch Secor not too long ago wrote an op ed for The New York Occasions that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Guns. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I needed to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it wish to reside on the heart of all of it as a dad or mum, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the project. I am Audie Cornish.

The taking pictures on the Covenant College type of prompted you to jot down an op ed for The New York Occasions. However can you’re taking me again to that day slightly bit? The place have been you while you heard it occurring?

Positive it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I received a textual content message from our college lawyer saying, I am so sorry, and I had no concept what was going on. And prayer hand emoji is fascinating.

So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a taking pictures, particularly at a faculty, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Worry. What? What do you’re feeling?

It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your youngsters. It is another person’s youngsters. , the pinnacle of college was murdered. The connections between our college are very current, and it is as a group member in Nashville, this stunning realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our youngsters, to our the place that’s most sacred.

And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public faculty. It did not occur at a giant college. It occurred at basically a small Christian major faculty. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.

Yeah. And our colleges are very completely different in that regard and serve completely different populations. Nevertheless, it you realize, we’re all the identical. We’re all each faculty, public, personal, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that children are our future and should be stewarded and cherished on and guided. And, you realize, that is an actual elemental precept for me.

Can I ask, how outdated are your youngsters and do they go to the college you based?

Yeah, they do. They usually’re 9 and 11.

So did the college you based this Episcopal faculty, did it go into lockdown? Form of what what did you you all should do consequently?

No, the faculties adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I believe that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your youngsters haven’t but been notified. The workers is aware of, the academics know, all people is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, all people is aware of however the youngsters. And we will discuss it tomorrow. However we needed to provide the probability to speak about it first. So in case you can think about a decide up line, anyone who’s who’s been via a faculty taking pictures of their group is aware of, you realize, the decide up line that first day is filled with tears.

Proper. And for individuals who aren’t acquainted with how large ups and drop offs work as of late in colleges, there’s a line proper, the place like there are type of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you decide them up. There’s not identical to wandering out of the constructing the place I believe in case you have been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand at hand move off.

That is proper, Audie. You will need to have youngsters.

Properly, the juxtaposition of youngsters filled with vibrant pleasure and life and fogeys filled with grief and unhappiness coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.

Which means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each dad or mum’s face is simply drawn.

And each dad or mum is each instructor and simply, you realize, holding again tears as is each instructor. However each little one continues to really feel very protected. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no little one is protected any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our youngsters.

I suppose I need to begin perhaps with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if individuals go to look you up, that is perhaps the primary track they study. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me slightly bit about the place you have been in your profession while you wrote this.

Positive. Properly, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable track.

Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my strategy to North Carolina, staring up.

And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it after I was about 17, going to high school up in New England in a prep faculty referred to as Exeter, and I used to be had simply realized to play the banjo up there.

So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any means you’re feeling. Hey mama rock me

You discuss the concept your finest recognized track, Wagon Wheel, is usually blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I need you to speak about why.

While you make the type of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a selected fashion of songwriting, you are partaking in a group that is perhaps completely different than your individual type of background, and it is not. Properly, there is a prepare going by proper now. That is type of proof..

I keep in mind the prepare. Yeah.

The trains are at all times going by in Nashville.

Simply received to maintain it going on the podcast. It’s going to add slightly little bit of colour and speaks to what I am speaking about. , the trains are going by. The vehicles have NRA stickers. , after I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in every single place. That is The South, y’all. It is completely different than the opposite elements of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.

And while you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the particular person falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Properly, that is The South.

Like, that is imagined to cowl a number of issues.

Yeah. And whether or not it is imagined to be that means or, you realize, I believe we’re in a state of appreciable progress down south, however the vestiges stay, they usually’re vital to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought-about just like the insurgent flag previously, simply one thing that exists right here. Deal with it, y’all. When actually, we’ve at all times had the facility to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.

And effected change in a method, or not less than elevate the type of societal stakes partaking in sure language.

Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in direction of The South’s evolution.

To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so carefully align with their audiences. It is very very similar to hip-hop, like individuals in hip-hop discuss concerning the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the identification of the individuals listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical means. However consequently, it has a number of like guidelines. , there is a couple traces you they individuals do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to discuss how that performs out in fashionable nation?

Positive. Properly, at this time’s nation singer may not come from The South and is faculty educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. , it is it is not coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified rather a lot. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.

Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are determination makers and our typically managers, there’s been type of like a number of analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers most likely appears to be like slightly completely different than individuals count on as effectively.

Properly, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you realize, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, up to date nation music on the radio is an actual protected area for us to not discuss political divisiveness and never discuss issues of of substance. However as an alternative we’re all type of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is

Which is why it is in style, proper? I imply, through the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming perhaps was up 15%. It was larger than some other style.

Folks welcome that protected area.

Journey story. It is you realize, it’s totally a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the type of stuff that goes primary is the track about grandpa and what a superb man he was and the way if we may very well be slightly bit extra like him, then the world can be a greater place. So this type of, you realize, hallmark type of these beliefs which can be tossed round may not be that reasonable for at this time’s actuality of, you realize, I labored I am a part of a world economic system working two jobs. And, you realize, I am hoping my youngsters are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an vital antidote to the entire ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.

Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a means that that is constructed into the music, too.

Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I might wish to spit some seaside nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my outdated 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. It is a strategy to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–

However do you hear it within the fashionable music? Are there? You do not have to pick any artist. However do individuals nonetheless discuss that?

No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not discuss weapons. If we do, it is a track about I took my boy looking for the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it is not saying is I’ve received an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a protected area the place they don’t seem to be confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As an alternative, they’re allowed to say, I taught my little one tips on how to, you realize, I imply, after I was a child within the eighties, like I went fowl hunt with Dad, I realized tips on how to hearth a weapon. I realized tips on how to clear a weapon. This stuff are vital to the ways in which gun tradition generally is a constructive, however the protected area is that we’re not speaking about what it means in at this time’s America. As an alternative, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.

So what’s it like for artists resembling your self to boost this challenge?

Folks hold saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. who’s courageous is the child that pulled the hearth alarm, you realize, within the hallway below gunfire in our city in a faculty, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I’ll sing concerning the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I’ll inform what I see.

I do not need to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?

Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city they usually bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless contemporary, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the truth. It is like, Good God, the place can we reside? What can we not care about youngsters in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my means of claiming it is not over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American youngsters gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it’s going to be over.

Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.

You’re demanding a brand new type of motion come out of the south. And that it partially be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as effectively, not simply politicians, individuals resembling your self. Why do you suppose it may make a distinction?

Properly, I believe that Nashville stands uniquely poised to steer a response to the college taking pictures epidemic.

However why do you suppose that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of that they had a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to suppose that?

Properly, Nashville, even if the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to paved the way. I am saying Nashville.

Yeah, however is not that the powerful half? If in all these states and it is not simply Tennessee, you have received these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of purple, and by purple I imply very conservative, very professional-gun, professional-Second Modification legislatures. This seems like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.

And I do know it is value it. I do not need to as a result of everyone knows it is value it. However I need I need to perceive why you suppose nation musicians are in any means uniquely positioned to have this dialog.

Properly, and I need to I respect you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I need to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Nineteen Sixties, within the late Fifties stated its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different elements of the South have been too unsafe. However individuals gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of faculties, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to have interaction in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.

Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.

All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That exhibits our skill as a as a group to exist outdoors of the state. Now, identical to in that point, the state legislator stated, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We forged the deciding vote on on ladies’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different situations of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the loss of life knell of the outdated South, which goes to have to alter. , 50 years from now I believe we will be trying again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the US.

Once more, I need to convey it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know concerning the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio specifically, which nonetheless has a really type of sturdy grip in a means programmers do, and even current historical past. Proper. When you concentrate on the Dixie Chicks, and so forth., their entire story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.

, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you realize, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the 12 months.

Do you want these individuals for the motion you are speaking about?

They’ve a very far attain and the facility to speed up an inevitable motion to alter this for our youngsters. And I am asking them via this piece and in addition nose to nose in my group, via conversations of textual content. , I’ve reached out to so many singers previously two weeks.

And what sort of textual content you ship.

Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music group within the wake of the taking pictures and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out at this time in The Occasions. For those who get a sec, please have a look.

What’s been essentially the most constructive response? What’s been essentially the most irritating one?

The most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I believe silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new track on the topic. For the reason that taking pictures, which is just two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective resolution.

I imply, the explanation why I am asking is as a result of your op ed stated one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the type of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you stated, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It is not like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I suppose what wouldn’t it take, do you suppose, for individuals in your trade? To begin to do one thing comparable, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.

It’s starting and it is, I believe, in its infancy, however it’s already began.

And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing a giant bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have got a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant College. And while you take a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it is not the standard Americana of us who at all times say, you realize, we stand with youngsters, we arise towards gun violence. As an alternative, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.

However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a protected area from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for a giant artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no person’s going to stand up and say we should always have gun management.

There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we we’ve began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence towards youngsters in our colleges or about the necessity to rethink the forms of weaponry that’s related with the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when any person takes one step and the motion can rapidly observe it, then the following step is not as exhausting to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. , I’ve gotten a number of suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you realize, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vehicles blaring in my tunes. So, you realize, and we’re out on the highway with Hank Jr. this summer season. So, I imply, I am I am used to taking part in to an viewers that’s our nation people. However I really like my nation people viewers. And I and I need to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 large silos within the nation. Like, I would go to work in a single silo and are available residence and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I really like these individuals.

What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?

Nation music has an amazing future in these instances to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I imagine on this style. And I imagine that it has the facility to hold that reality. , it’s totally a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the good spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your youngsters. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!

Are you able to discuss concerning the track that you’ve got written out of this second?

New materials? , typically, identical to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with a number of completely different alternatives as a author to have interaction on this, whether or not it is, you realize, writing the precise caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Occasions or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and attempt to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our youngsters aren’t protected of their colleges. What which means for me as a songwriter is that I even have the prospect to jot down new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I received a brand new track that is popping out referred to as Louder Than Guns. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.

Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.

Properly, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you realize, individuals are cagey about their new stuff!

You are dealing with a dude that wept via the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.

All proper. wakened this morning. It was Groundhog Day. I noticed the identical black veil on a crying face and a flag flying half means. This time it was individuals I do know gunned down in a minute or so. Solely God is aware of when it’s going to cease. However ideas and prayers ain’t sufficient. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up saying it is about time to place the final nail within the coffin, put the final physique within the floor, calling on each city, shout. Louder than weapons There is a legislation on a dusty scroll.

Ketch Secor is the daddy of two youngsters in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Outdated Crow Medication Present.

Now The Assignment is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our govt producer. Particular due to Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.

I am the louder than weapons. oooooo. Louder than weapons. I do not need to get up on one other Groundhog Day. No, I do not need to hear one other rat a tat tat tat echoed down the hallway. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for letting each voice be heard, each coronary heart, each hand. Each city take a stand. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up, saying it is about rattling time. We put the final nail within the coffin. We put the final physique within the floor. I am calling on each city. Louder than weapons.

Sending that one out to Louisville at this time.

Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.

Yeah, we received. We received to. We received to do it, y’all.